In the mid 1970's as punk exploded Alan Anger started his own fanzine Live Wire. He
 went on to write for Zig Zag, NME, Sounds, Loud & Horseplay. He was present at 
The Boys first ever gig in September 1976 and later became their tour manager. 
He was also present in the recording studio with The Boys as they recorded 
many of their classic tracks.  He was also lead vocalist of The Rowdies 
alongside Honest John Plain (guitar) and Jack Black (drums). 


Pete Stride, Alan Anger & Jack Black

 

What were your major musical influences as a teenager?
I've always been interested in music and films and like Matt I loved The Beatles and some of the other sixties stuff like the Small Faces.  I also liked the New York Dolls, Alice Cooper, the Faces and David Bowie.  I was also into the heavier stuff at the time like Led Zeppelin although I went through the stage, like many others, where I became sick of bands over doing it.  Led Zeppelin were very good but I saw them live and they played far too long dragging out “Dazed and Confused” for about two hours!  Around that time I was a DJ and at the beginning of the night, when no one was too interested I took the opportunity to play my own stuff, which was the most enjoyable part.  I liked a lot of glam stuff so I would play Bowie and T.Rex and when nobody was listening I would play the New York Dolls and Roxy Music.  At the time I didn’t know many other people who were buying records by the New York Dolls and Aerosmith and so I got a lot of my records from America.  I eventually met Mick Jones, Glen Matlock, Kelvin Blacklock and Matt, who were buying the same sort of records from America as I was.  Later the Ramones came along and they were another big influence on me.  It was a big change to be hearing three-minute songs once again.
How did you get into rock journalism?
I’ve always been interested in rock music and I was always spending all my money on records.  At school my best subject was always English and I was always writing stories so I just fancied doing reviews.  I started by reviewing bands I went to see at the Marquee and sending the reviews off as freelance.  Then with the punk thing I wrote with Mark Perry, who started Sniffin' Glue and Adrian Thrills, who did 48 Thrills.  There was also Shane MacGowan and a bloke called Chaos and we all used to go down the 100 Club to watch the Jam, the Pistols and The Boys.  I certainly liked The Boys more than any other of the bands and I wanted to write my own fanzine so I started Live Wire in 1977.  I used to do it differently to the others by cutting clips out of the Beano and having it as a collage on the back page.  I then started doing reviews and interviewing bands like the Jam.  In those days they were always a support band.  I saw them support the Pistols and the Clash on the White Riot tour.  There were never many people at Jam gigs.  Glen Matlock and myself were always there and maybe a handful of others.  The Boys then played with the Jam and you’ve probably heard about Ken Mewis getting punched.
Tell me about it.
Well Paul Weller was a nut case to be honest.  As I recall Cas had one of his Norwegian mates over and I think Cas had upset Paul Weller and Weller was running round like a loony getting all angry.  Then Cas’ friend said he was going to hit Weller and Weller came over thinking it was Ken Mewis and ended up hitting him.  Then Cas’ friend also hit Ken as he mistakenly thought Ken was going to hit Cas.
He probably deserved it for not making The Boys massive!
Exactly!
How did you come up with the name Alan Anger?
Everybody was calling themselves something else so I took it from the director Kenneth Anger and it seemed to fit nicely in with the punk scene although Matt has always thought that my real name, Butcher, sounded better.
You then started writing for Zig Zag?
I wrote an article about the Hollywood Brats and Chris Needs of Zig Zag asked me to write an article on the Brats for them so that was my first article.  I then wrote an article about The Pleasers, who used to copy The Beatles and I went from there.
Were you aware of the Hollywood Brats & London SS prior to hearing The Boys?
I was certainly aware of London SS as I knew Mick Jones and I vaguely knew Matt and Cas although I can’t claim to have been friends with them then.  Cas was the first Boy I really picked up as a mate, he was a real good bloke.  Cas and Duncan were the two who became good friends of mine because they were the ones who were going to all the gigs and of course all the girls liked them.  Matt, John and Jack were more laid back and they’d stay at home watching the Sweeney or whatever.  I was doing an interview with Cas for Live Wire and he invited me over to NEMS and introduced me to Ken Mewis who told me that I was one of the few who were sticking with the band.  He then came out with all these promises, like Ken used to do, saying if I worked with the band as tour manager I’d be part of the band and I’d earn loads of money. 
You were at the first Boys gig at the Hope and Anchor?
Yes I’d been to Spain with some mates and when I returned home I wanted to see what was happening in London.  Someone mentioned to me that a band called The Boys were playing at the Hope and Anchor and I might know some of them, which of course I did so we all went along to see them.  The Hope and Anchor was a great venue, very much like the Cavern.  I really liked them because they had a pop feel and their music was very exciting.  Most bands were trying to copy the Ramones or the Pistols but The Boys always had their own ideas and their own unique sound, they really were very good and it was great to see a band who were playing short catchy songs.  Before it became known as power-pop The Boys and a couple of others like Generation X were playing that kind of sixties influenced pop music.  They played Cilla Black's "You're My World" and stuff like that.  There was no else around like Cas with his little electric piano and they reminded me a little of the Dave Clark Five.  They wore ties, which was strange at that time as they were the first band to wear them.  The Jam copied them and then many other bands followed.
Did Duncan bounce around the stage at the gig?
Yes but he got much better at it later on.  I'm sure Duncan won’t mind me saying that he’s definitely influenced by Suzi Quatro.
I hear John used to move around on stage too then?
Yeah although he was a little clumsy!  He was told not to move and Matt, who didn't move was told to move a little more.
What's the story about Casino being 'unnecessary'?
Duncan and Matt came over as the stars of the band and you couldn’t really hear the electric piano above the guitars so I wrote in my review that the keyboard player Casino Steel was “unnecessary”.  Anyway the next time I went to the Marquee I felt a tap on my shoulder and this Norwegian guy asked me if I was Alan Anger.  I replied that I was and he showed me a badge he’d had made which read “I am unnecessary”.  Of course I then recognised that it was Cas and I roared with laughter and we ended up being very good mates, Cas had a great sense of humour.  I later realised what a great songwriter Cas was and how important his harmonies were to the sound of The Boys.
What's the story about Casino being 'unnecessary'?
Duncan and Matt came over as the stars of the band and you couldn’t really hear the electric piano above the guitars so I wrote in my review that the keyboard player Casino Steel was “unnecessary”.  Anyway the next time I went to the Marquee I felt a tap on my shoulder and this Norwegian guy asked me if I was Alan Anger.  I replied that I was and he showed me a badge he’d had made which read “I am unnecessary”.  Of course I then recognised that it was Cas and I roared with laughter and we ended up being very good mates, Cas had a great sense of humour.  I later realised what a great songwriter Cas was and how important his harmonies were to the sound of The Boys.
What do you know about Mick Jones’ desire to have Matt as lead vocalist in the Clash?
In the early days with London SS Matt played with Mick amongst many others.  Everybody was getting their own bands together and nobody really knew who was going to be with who for example Tony James almost joined The Boys before John brought in Duncan on bass.  Mick had always planned for Matt to be in his group, which eventually became the Clash.  Unfortunately Matt didn’t get on with their manager Bernie Rhodes so he formed his own group with John and Cas.  I still see Mick on a regular basis and only a couple of weeks ago he told me how much he would have liked Matt to have been a part of his band.

The Boys auditioned several vocalists?
Yes Kelvin Blacklock, who played with the Tools, was close to joining as the singer and he was always one of Matt’s best friends.  Later on Billy Idol was considered although I don’t think Cas and John would have been very happy with that.

Why wouldn't Cas and John have been happy with Billy Idol?
I don't think they were too keen on him but he was an ideal frontman.  At that time no one knew what was happening and The Boys almost never got off the ground.  I think it was John who saved the band by bringing in Jack and Duncan, his two mates from the T-Shirt factory where he worked at. 

NEMS then came along to see The Boys?

And Ken gave them away for a beer!

What were your thoughts when they signed to NEMS?
I wasn't really involved with the band so I didn’t really give it much thought.  I suppose at the time it was good that they’d been signed as no one knew how big the punk thing was going to be and punk bands were not being signed up.  I think the Damned had signed to Stiff and the Pistols had been signed but no other bands had.  I suppose with hindsight they could have held out but Ken saw a quick buck and he went for it.

Did anyone consider it to be a mistake at the time?
No I don’t think anyone realised then.  In a way it probably saved them as I don't think they were sure what they were going to do.  Matt probably saw a future with the band because they'd signed a record deal.

What were your thoughts on "I Don't Care" as their first single?
I liked it and gave the single a good review in Live Wire although I always preferred the B-side "Soda Pressing".

Around that time you sang with The Damned at the Roxy? 
A friend of Matt's ran the Roxy and I went there all the time and saw all the gigs.  One night the Damned were there and they were getting quite big at the time so it was a full house.  Dave Vanian hadn't turned up and Captain Sensible was running round asking if anyone knew the Damned songs and they’d seen me at the gigs because I was a bit of a Damned fan.  So I was asked to get up and I sung "New Rose" with them and then a few others and by the end of the gig there were loads of fans on the stage.  I was a bit crazy in those days but it was a good laugh.  I went to see Subway Sect at the Electric Ballroom in Camden and Bernie Rhodes had advertised the gig saying that special guests would appear.  He did it because Subway Sect never attracted any fans and everyone of course assumed that the Clash would be playing so there was a full house.  The "special guests" was a publicity stunt and Rhodes told the audience that they were the "special guests".  I thought it was crap and so I strolled onto stage, got hold of the microphone and announced to the audience that it was utter bollocks and got the biggest cheer of the night.  Having seen me Ken Mewis decided he wanted more of that at Boys gigs so after that I was getting up all the time at Boys gigs for the encore.

Tell me about Ken Mewis?
Well Ken had been a tea boy with Andrew Loog Oldham, the Rolling Stones manager and this got him in the business as he was able to say he’d worked with Oldham and the Stones.  He had managed the Hollywood Brats so he knew Cas.  The Boys needed a manager and I suppose Cas just went for someone he knew.  Ken was an alcoholic just like the rest of us so I always got on with him!  There’s a few funny stories I could tell you about Ken.

Tell me some.
We went over to Holland in the van and we were trying to find the place we were playing so we had to ask some people for directions and there’s Ken shoving his head out of the back window shouting "Hey you cloggy, where’s the fucking gig!"  We were having to shut him up and that kind of thing happened a lot.  The Boys played one gig in Holland in a huge marquee and during the sound check Ken shouts to Matt, who is onstage "The sound's alright for a fucking tent".  Ken was so tight we didn’t have a hotel booked one night and we’d only got one driver, Dave Brennan from Manchester who was absolutely shattered.  Anyway we are driving down this motorway in Holland and John was taking the piss saying “Go this way, no no go that way” and Dave got that annoyed he stopped the van and just got out and started walking along the motorway muttering "I've had enough, I've had enough".  So we are all stuck there on the motorway without a driver and Ken sends me after Dave to try and calm him down.  I'm there saying "Come on Dave, I know you haven't had any sleep for 24 hours but we are going to miss the ferry!"  That was Ken's organisation for you, if he could do it on the cheap he would.

He appears to carry the brunt of the blame for The Boys not making it big?
Well The Boys should have been massive and he was their manager so it's fair comment to a certain extent and he didn’t have much idea on how to successfully manage a band.  When things were falling apart between Ken and The Boys I nearly became their manager you know.

Tell me about it.
Well I don't think Matt would have agreed but Jack and Duncan were certainly up for it.  They needed a good manager and to be honest although I loved the band I don't think I could have done them justice.

What did you think of their first album?
I like their first two albums the best.  There's some great stuff on their first album like "Living In The City" which they always finished with live.  It always used to get Matt leaping around.  It was good that the two Brats numbers were on the album albeit very different versions.  I really like the whole of that first album although I tend to be a bit of a romantic at heart and liked "Heroin" and "Independent Girl" from their later albums.  I don't think any of us liked the album cover, which had a New York feel but it was what Ken wanted.

What about the mix on the album?
I thought it was fine although I suppose it was a little rushed.  The Boys always had their own sound and Matt liked the drums mixed up high.

"First Time" is very commercial.  Did you feel it had the potential to be a big hit?

Definitely, it was a really good song.  John always disliked the cover of "First Time".  He just couldn’t understand what some bloke jumping off a building had to do with it.  As far as I remember it was Ken’s idea and he just wasn’t on their wavelength at all. 

How did the dynamics within The Boys work?
Although they never had a leader as such Matt was always the spiritualist leader and he was a great musician too.  Duncan was a great frontman and definitely the star on stage, bouncing around in his Suzi Quatro way.  Everybody noticed Duncan.  Jack, who was a young fella like Duncan, was very keen and enthusiastic and he was such a laugh.  Did you hear about the time he collapsed on stage in Holland?

Wasn't it Duncan who collapsed on stage?
No Duncan did it for real at the Marquee after returning from France.  He was exhausted and we had to call his Mother and Father who came and picked him up.  Jack thought that Duncan collapsing looked great so he decided to do it in Holland, making a big dramatic thing of it by falling over his drum kit.  Stewart, one of the roadies and I ran on stage to help Jack up and he's there winking at me.  We took him off stage for a couple of minutes and then he comes back on stage as a hero! 
All The Boys had good personalities.  Cas is a great bloke and so popular with the girls.  I remember one night in Manchester seven girls tried to have their evil way with him.  Barrie Masters of Eddie And The Hot Rods said to me 'How does he do it?  All the women fancy him'.  John of course is John and what a character.  I maybe shouldn't tell you about the time he sold the amplifiers and told the band they got nicked.  He then put the money on a horse and Matt wouldn't speak to him for ages.  Being around John was chaotic but he was such good fun to be with.

A few punk celebrities used to get on stage and jam with The Boys?
Johnny Thunders used to get up with The Boys a lot.  He was watching The Boys one night and was very impressed so he turned to me and said "Hey I gotta get up with these guys, that little guy Duncan’s fantastic".  You've probably heard the story about when he got up with The Boys at the Marquee.

No.
Well someone from NEMS had come to see The Boys and he says to Ken afterwards "Saw the gig, wonderful.  We're gonna really push The Boys but you gotta keep that little American guy who leaps on at the end!" It really demonstrated how out of touch NEMS were.  Bruce Foxton of the Jam got up one night and Marianne Faithful got up another night and that was a funny one as Tony Parsons took offence to it.  Steve Jones used to get up as well, usually blind drunk so he never played that well.  I always used to leap on for a laugh and when I was tour manager the roadies used to get up too.  It was great fun being on tour with The Boys.

No.
Well someone from NEMS had come to see The Boys and he says to Ken afterwards "Saw the gig, wonderful.  We're gonna really push The Boys but you gotta keep that little American guy who leaps on at the end!" It really demonstrated how out of touch NEMS were.  Bruce Foxton of the Jam got up one night and Marianne Faithful got up another night and that was a funny one as Tony Parsons took offence to it.  Steve Jones used to get up as well, usually blind drunk so he never played that well.  I always used to leap on for a laugh and when I was tour manager the roadies used to get up too.  It was great fun being on tour with The Boys.

How were The Boys regarded by their peers?
Oh they were very highly regarded by other bands.  The Jam used to like them, especially Paul Weller, the Ramones, Johnny Thunders and Mick Jones also liked them.  The music press were behind them and I always used to pump them up in my articles.  Unfortunately some of the fans who followed the Pistols and the Clash didn't like The Boys because they didn’t think they were radical enough.  Gene October of Chelsea actually said that one night and Chelsea refused to play as support band to The Boys at the Music Machine.  Following that incident Cas made another badge stating “I’m not radical enough”.  That's what I liked about Cas and The Boys, they had a great sense of humour and we were all on the same wavelength.

Mark Bolan was also a Boys fan?
Yes he was.  The Boys were supporting the Jam at Hammersmith Odeon at the end of their tour and we had a big party after the gig and Marc Bolan turned up.  In those days I always used to get mistaken for a member of The Boys, probably because I looked more like a member of the band than Honest John did.  So Marc Bolan arrives and he's hugging me and Duncan saying "I love The Boys, I don't like the Jam, I love The Boys".  He wanted The Boys to appear on his TV programme.  The Boys were such an unlucky band, Bolan wanted them on his TV show and then a few weeks later he was killed in a car crash.

What impact did Elvis' death have on The Boys?
We were on tour in Swindon when the news came through that Elvis had died and that was it.  Their album was really going to be pushed by NEMS and suddenly RCA, who distributed NEMS, just concentrated on re-releasing Elvis records.  The Boys must be the unluckiest band of all time.

The Boys had a reputation for being heavy drinkers and knowing how to enjoy themselves.  Can you recall any amusing incidents?
Oh where to start!  Did you hear about the fight between Matt and John?

No.
John was particularly drunk that day and was getting more and more angry over The Boys lack of success.  He was in a foul mood all day and just got legless to the point where he was lousy on stage that night as well.  On the way home John finally vented all his anger on Matt, who of course he had known for years.  They were going to have this fight and Matt finally had enough and aimed one punch at John and he was out.  To this day John swears that Matt hit him with something. 
John and Jack were always called the Big Two and they would be the ones who were always drunk.  In the studio the drummer is always finished first and John was laying down more rhythm than lead at that time.  Duncan took more of an interest in the mixing so he would stay with Matt and Cas to learn a little more.  So inevitably Jack and John would drag me off and we’d go get drunk somewhere.  Rockfield for instance was just one big drink up, two weeks of getting pissed.  One afternoon Jack and I took all the furniture outside.  It was a nice day and we were back at our digs and I suggested that we sit outside and take the armchairs with us.  So we took them outside and then we dragged all the other furniture out too.  Jack and I made it look all nice and cosy in this field with the television there which we could still watch because we had the wires hanging out of the window.  Tom Robinson, who had just had a hit, was there and he turned up in a flashy big car whilst John turned up on his little pushbike.  The difference between the two was unbelievable.
Jack was a real character.  We had come back from Blackburn one night, it must have been hard times for us to drive back rather than stay in a hotel.  Obviously we were all knackered and so Stewart, our driver drops us all off until there was only Jack left with him.  Jack of course was very drunk and decided to take Stewart on a tour of London so he could give him his life story.  Stewart was getting more and more annoyed as Jack would say “On my left is my old school and on the right is where I used to live.”  Stewart snapped back at Jack “Just tell me where the hell you live now, I just want to get home and get to bed!"
Ozzy Osborne once joined The Boys and myself in The Warrington pub for a piss-up.  He was great fun and paid for the beers and the taxis to the party we were going to that night in Hampstead, where the Go Go’s were staying.  I remember Madness and Steve Jones being at the same party.
The Boys played a gig in Plymouth and we were all drunk afterwards.  We were walking back to our hotel and all of a sudden these navy police pull up and start asking us what’s going on.  Well I’m clowning around and have a bollard on my head.  I hear this guy speak to the police on his radio “We've got a bunch of punks with bollards on their heads” and I'm just rolling about laughing whilst the rest of the lads are trying to shut me up.  Fortunately I managed to talk my way out of it and we got back to the hotel when we realised that Cas was missing.  We all went to bed and a while later I heard Cas shouting “Matt, Alan” and he was outside hiding behind some bins fearing that he would get taken away and beaten up by the police.  He had this fear of the police which is why I think he wrote “Cop Cars”.
One night I was with Cas and a girl called Linda who was Jean Jacques Burnell’s girlfriend and we went to see Radio Stars in Woolwich.  Linda really fancied Cas as all the girls did.  After the gig these Hells Angels decided to pick on us.  This one guy comes over for a fight and I was trying to smooth things over when Cas suddenly tells these Hells Angels “I can't fight you but Alan will fight you”.  I could have killed him!  This guy decides he’s going to fight me so I continued to try and talk my way out of it and suggested that we swap badges and thankfully he agreed.  He gives me this tiny badge and he puts it on me.  He then pulls out this huge Bowie knife and cuts my badge from my leather jacket.  I'm thinking “That's fair” but the Hells Angels are still wanting some action.  Fortunately Linda recognised one of them as she’d seen him at a Stranglers gig and managed to sort things out so I didn’t get a beating, no thanks to Cas!
I must tell you about the time we went to see Jerry Lee Lewis.  Cas was a big fan and he went and booked a whole row of seats near the front for him at the Rainbow.  It was great because it was all of The Boys plus their friends all on this row.  We got drunk in the pub opposite before the gig and we had a great night.  Cas also liked Tony Bennett and he went to see him one night with Sid Vicious and a few others.  As Tony Bennet stopped singing Cas shouted out “Hey Tony give us the Good Life” and Tony Bennett turned round and replied “I don’t mind if I do”.  Cas was really pleased and had such a grin on his face.

The Boys recorded "Alternative Chartbusters" in Rockfield?
Yeah I like that album, it has a nice pop feel.  It was Beatles influenced because both Cas and Matt were big Lennon fans just like myself.

What were your favourite tracks?

I like the whole album but "Brickfield Nights" is one of my all time favourites.

Is that Matt's finest moment?
Yes along with "Independent Girl" too.

What did you think about their failure to chart?
It was very strange.  Because the punk movement was becoming very political everyone expected bands to be heavily political.  I know that Matt had done "Tenement Kids" and stuff like that but most of their songs weren’t too political.  The music press loved them, people like Pete Silverton in Sounds and Barry Cain from Record Mirror but things were so political that The Boys tended to be overlooked by the average punk fan because of their power-pop approach.  In those days I was getting a magazine from America called Punk and as well as the established bands it featured other stuff like the Rubinoos and other American power-pop and they would mention The Boys in the magazine.  I used to get a lot of enquiries from America about The Boys.  I remember the Boomtown Rats coming over from Ireland and I didn't think they were anything special but Bob Geldoff was a good frontman.  He couldn't sing or anything but you could see he had something and they filled the gap where The Boys should have been.  They made some good pop songs but a lot of their success was down to Geldoff's big mouth.  Geldoff kept pushing me to write about the Boomtown Rats but I was reluctant to because neither the editor of Zig Zag nor myself liked them.  Geldoff told me that he didn’t care what we wrote as long as we mentioned them.  I got the point, Geldoff certainly knew how generate publicity.

John told me that one of Matt's ideas was no publicity?
Yeah, you can see that on the first cover.  On "I Don't Care" they are all covering their faces and that was Matt's idea.  He would have liked it to have all been like that.  He should have been in Devo!  I remember at one point the teeny mags started taking an interest in The Boys and I helped push that a little.  I helped make Duncan and Cas into 'mini pop stars' which was good.  These magazines photographed primarily Cas and Duncan and plastered their magazines with their photos but Matt hated it and he didn’t want to do it.  I recall asking the band for their likes and dislikes and Matt would just put something really stupid because he just wasn't into it.  They really should have gone for the teen thing as they had the potential to be very successful.  Maybe it was down to Matt not wanting to be as popular as the others wanted to be. 

What did you think of The Yobs? 
I liked The Yobs.  That all started in a rehearsal studio at the bottom of Kings Road, Chelsea.  They were in the studio and for some reason John started singing "The Worm Song" and told us it was a song from the scouts.  So they recorded it with Duncan singing and someone suggested that they ought to release it under a different name and so The Yobs were born.  They also recorded "Run Rudolf Run" at the same time as a Christmas single.

You managed Defiant?

Yeah they were regulars at the Roxy.  Their guitarist, Dok was really good but the other three girls couldn’t really play anything.  They made their live debut in a park in Sheffield on Jubilee Day.  We had this idea of making a record with "LSD" on the A-side and "Social Climber" on the B-side.  I had all the labels printed but the band never recorded the single so I was left with all these labels.  I got hold of some Frank Sinatra singles and pasted the labels over the top of the Sinatra labels and sent copies to all the music magazines as a joke.  They played along and all reviewed it albeit very tongue in cheek.  Many years later I've had several phone calls from people who are trying to get hold of the Defiant's single, which of course doesn’t exist.  There's going to be an article in Record Collector because it's apparently the fifth rarest record in the world!

You were present at Rockfield when The Boys recorded their never to be released third NEMS album?
Yeah that's right.

In an article you wrote for Zig Zag you said that the provisional title for the album was  "Skidmarks" with free stained underpants coming with the first 10,000 copies?
That was Matt's idea, it was a line from "Independent Girl".

You sang vocals on "She's No Angel", "Pick Me Up" and "The Other Man" during those sessions?
I was in the studio with Matt and John at Rockfield and they were there for a fortnight so they could really take their time recording the album!  We all liked country music at the time and John had written this song called "She's No Angel" which he wanted sung in a cockney and western type style.  As he started singing it I looked at Matt and I joked "He can't sing cockney he's from bloody Leeds".  John got the hump with me and replied "Well if you can do any better why don't you do it" and so I did.  Everyone thought it sounded okay so John and I went back to the house so I could learn the song properly.  We didn't know at the time whether it would make it on the album or not but it was great fun anyway.  "The Other Man" was written by Jack but I don't think Matt liked it.  I can't remember why I sung it.  Maybe it was because Matt and Duncan didn't want to sing it.  "Pick Me Up" was recorded after Rockfield in a studio in Covent Garden and they were thinking of inviting Andrew Matheson to sing the vocals.  It was a song that John had originally written with the Lurkers in mind.  John could always write witty lyrics, I remember Paul Weller's Dad being well chuffed that he got a mention on "Backstage Pass". 

You later re-recorded "She's No Angel" with The Rowdies?
Yeah I discussed the possibility that we should do a country version of the song with John and Jack and they both agreed.  I think sometimes John felt like the 'George Harrison' of the band so he was happy to do something away from The Boys.  We went to a studio in Tooting and we recruited Phil Spalding and Mark Harrison from the Bernie Torme Band.  Although Mark was the drummer with Bernie Torme he always used to play this honky tonk piano at parties just for a laugh so I thought we'd use him on piano in the Rowdies.  Unfortunately we didn’t have a producer and the engineer cut out some great guitar parts from John on the single.  My Mum gave us some money for the single as did the fanzine Teenage Depression so it was released on Teenage Depression Records.  It was played a few times on the radio by John Peel and Kenny Everett.  The B-side was the Faces song “Had Me A Real Good Time” as John and I were big fans.  I used to love the Faces but went off Rod Stewart just before punk happened.  I once met Ronnie Lane in Dingwalls and told him that the Rowdies had recorded "Had Me A Real Good Time".  He went into a crazed mental attack about how Rod Stewart had ripped him off and didn’t write half the songs he said he had.  He went on to say that Rod had saved his best songs for his solo albums.  Ronnie’s wife apologised to me for his behaviour.
John and I then decided that we would play some gigs to promote the single but we never managed to get everybody together.  We'd written a few songs and had planned to play some covers like the Faces “Richmond” which we’d changed to "Brixton".  We were actually going to do a tour supporting the Merton Parkas who I had discovered and got them their record deal with Beggars Banquet.  They were initially a power pop band called the Sneakers who I used to go see with Cas and some other people I knew.  Like many other power-pop bands they were big fans of The Boys.  At one point Boys roadie Mark Mason played the bass guitar for the Rowdies.  Mark was a Boys fan who became a roadie for both The Boys and the Ramones.  He also impersonated the landlord of The Warrington on The Yobs song "Ballad Of The Warrington".

How did the Cockney And Westerns re-release come about?
I was friends with the Lurkers who were on Beggars Banquet and they told me that their label wanted to re-release "She's No Angel" so we sold them the tapes and changed the name of the band.  

What did you think of the Skidmarks sessions?
Well they recorded quite a few songs and no one knew what was going to make it onto the album.  The Boys normally worked very quickly but they had more time to do this album and they threw all sorts of ideas in but I don't think it worked as well as their other albums.  The sessions were very loose although some good stuff came out of it like Matt's "Independent Girl" which really is very good.

Around this time you started running The Boys fan club?
Oh yes Classified Susie.  Ken Mewis wondered what should be done with all the fan letters The Boys were getting at the time so I suggested that the band should have a fan club.  I knew Hazel O'Connor and I was living in a flat with Siobhan from Bananarama.  So Hazel, Siobhan and myself ran it from Hazel’s house.  I used to try and send stuff out like photos, badges and whatever Ken would give me.  I also started selling merchandise around that time at Boys gigs which was quite unique.  We played in Wales one night and I had a silly white kipper tie which I stapled to a T-shirt and wrote "The Boys" on it and someone bought it!

Were Siobhan and Hazel Boys fans?
Yes they were but not huge fans.  Siobhan liked Andrew Matheson from the Hollywood Brats.  When Hazel started playing more gigs I got John and Jack interested although it wasn't really their cup of tea.  They played several rehearsals with her band which also included Gary Tibbs who later played with Roxy Music.

The fan club only lasted about a year?
Well you can blame Ken Mewis for that.  He just wasn't giving me enough to keep it going which was a pity because there were fans from America and everywhere.

What can you remember about John's involvement with the Lurkers?

I helped John with the Lurkers.  Pete Stride was a big Faces and Stones fan the same as John.  I was always saying to Pete and Howard Wall that they ought to do something more in the Stones vein so they recruited John on rhythm guitar and it worked.  "New Guitar In Town" was a very good song although it was originally meant to be the Lurkers doing a Cliff Richard cover.  John was really pleased to be involved with the Lurkers because The Boys weren't doing much at the time and the Lurkers had a good following.  They were a fun band.  I really liked Howard Wall, he had a great sense of humour.  Howard's a chef somewhere in the country now you know.  His idea of heaven was to have a remote control watching “The Likely Lads” with a crate of beer at his side.    Did you hear the story about how I died?

No.
Well we were in Waltham-on-Thames where Howard lived and we’d come out of this pub very drunk and I stepped into the road and got run over.  I was so legless that I was like a puppet.  Because I was drunk I didn't break any bones but I'd stopped breathing and this passer-by managed to get me breathing again. 

Around this time Paul Weller had a Boys sticker on his guitar?

Well the Jam were contemporaries of The Boys and they really liked them.  I gave Weller a Boys sticker one night and he put it straight on his guitar and it's on the cover of their album "All Mod Cons".  Ken Mewis was really pleased, he told me it was the best publicity The Boys had had.  I was also very friendly with their drummer Rick Buckler and regularly used to go up to his place in Croydon to have a few drinks with him.

What did you think of The Boys tour with the Ramones?

Oh that was good fun.  That was when Cas nearly became Cassy Ramone.  He used to come on for the encore of "Baby I Love You" and they wanted him to go back to New York with the band.  Cas really had to think hard about that but he turned down the opportunity to join the Ramones because he didn't want to move to New York as he didn't know anyone there.

What did you think of Casino's departure from The Boys?

I didn't think it would be the same without Cas.  It's ironic to think that at the beginning of The Boys I called him 'unnecessary' whereas by the time he left I had realised what a valuable asset he was to the band.  We were in the studio one day and Cas told me he was leaving and suggested I become the new keyboard player.  Unfortunately I can't play a note so that was a non-starter.

After Casino Steel left the band you went on their 1980 French tour?
Yeah that was with Rudi from X-Ray Specs.  I wrote an article for Zig Zag on X-Ray Spex and was going up to meet them but Poly Styrene went a little crazy.  She kept seeing UFO’s and they dragged her away.  I'd got this interview arranged so I had to interview the bass player instead.  I got to know Rudi through that interview and I got him involved with the Jam and The Boys.

They then recorded "Boys Only"?

To be honest I didn't like "Boys Only" as much as their earlier stuff.  I didn't think the songs were as strong.  Cas gave me a right ticking off over that.  Although he wasn’t in the band he was still very close to them and told me that I should have been more loyal to the band.  I didn't give the album a bad review as I could never run The Boys down but I wasn't over ecstatic about it either.

What were your thoughts when The Boys finally called it a day?
Well I wasn't too keen on "Boys Only" and I couldn't see it making any impact.  They then recruited Howard Wall to replace Duncan.  I went along to the 100 Club with Duncan to watch The Boys with Howard on vocals.  It just wasn't the same without Duncan up there on stage.  Matt and John also seemed to take a back seat and it just didn’t seem like watching The Boys.

Matt then went into production?
Matt was always interested in the studio and Toyah needed a producer for her first single and so Safari asked Matt to do it.  Mind you Toyah didn't like it at all because he produced it like The Boys.  A while later she told me that he’d mixed the drums up just like The Boys. 
You worked with Matt on his radio show?
Yeah that was great fun.  I helped him on the 'Werewolf In London' show interviewing a few people including Justin Heyward  of the Moody Blues.
You sang with The Naked Truth and True Romance?
Yes that's right although we didn't play any live gigs.
Did you have any involvement with The Boys 1980's bands?
Not really although I thought the Dirty Strangers were a very underrated band.  I kept in touch with The Boys though.  Matt is the Godfather of my daughter and John was Best Man at my wedding.
In the late 1980's you started writing for Loud and Horseplay?
Yes I started writing for Loud which was a heavy metal fanzine but I managed to get a few mentions for the bands I liked including John's band the Crybabys.  I became editor for a while and ensured that the Crybabys were mentioned on a regular basis.
Did you see the Crybabys live?
Yeah I saw them a few times.  They were very good live.  Darrell Bath is a very good frontman and is very talented too.  He was a young fella and he should have been in a band like Oasis or something instead of hanging around with bands like UK Subs and the like.  I mean he's in Tenpole Tudor now!  Even the Ian Hunter thing wasn't that good.
You didn't like "Dirty Laundry"?
No.  I liked Hunter in Mott The Hoople but I didn't think John, Cas and Darrell should have done the "Dirty Laundry" album.  I went to see Hunter a while back when Dogs D’Amour were the support band and they had far too much energy for him.  He played a lot of new stuff and it didn't go down well at all with the crowd.  In the early days of punk I went to an Ian Hunter party which was behind Chelsea's football ground.  Mick Jones used to be in the Mott The Hoople fan club and Hunter was a hero to several other people like Tony James of Generation X.  I met the guy and tried to talk to him but he had no idea what was happening with the punk scene.  The sax player from the Glitter Band came over and he said to me "You punks don't know what it's like, we used to have big fights in my day".  I looked at him and thought what a fucking idiot and I then left.
Horseplay gave away a free tape, which included The Boys country version of "She's No Angel" credited to Black & Anger?
Well around the time that Jack wrote "The Other Man" we had an idea that we’d release some stuff as a duo and call ourselves Black & Anger.  We wanted to become bigger than Black & Decker!  Unfortunately nothing came of it but I kept the tapes I had of The Boys in Rockfield so I decided to use one of the recordings as a track on one of the cassettes given away with the magazine.  Jack got a copy through the post and he was pleased that Black & Anger hadn't been forgotten.
You hit the front page of the Sun a couple of years ago regarding the Chris Evans incidents?
I was a traffic warden for a couple of years and one day I'm carrying on with my work and suddenly all the press are there asking if I'd heard what Chris Evans was saying about me.  They told me that he'd been saying that I had been persecuting him all week giving him parking tickets.  The reality was that when I gave him a parking ticket I had no idea that it was his Bentley.  The next day it appeared in the papers and I refused to give my name so the papers were trying to find out who I was.  I couldn't believe it as I was on the front page of all these newspapers just for giving Chris Evans a parking ticket!  The next day Evans decided to run a scam on the radio saying that I was going to give him another ticket.  By the time I arrived in Piccadilly the TV cameras were also there as well as the press.  I was asked what I thought of Chris Evans and I told them that I preferred Zig and Zag because they were funnier.  Well the press loved this and so they continued with their story.  By the following day they’d found out who I was as John had been in touch with the press!  Well by now they knew my life story and the newspapers then ran a story about how I wouldn’t give Glen Matlock a parking ticket.  The story ran for a week and I heard that Chris Evans was getting a little tired of it by then which was amusing considering he’d started it all in the first place.  Everybody began to recognise me and started asking "Where's Chris?" until I got to hate the name Chris Evans. 
Once the Sun found out the story it became "Punk rocker nicks Chris Evans etc."  They got hold of some old photos and they were camped outside my house.  Eventually I agreed to talk to the Sun and they sent along two female reporters to speak to me.  I explained to them that I couldn't talk about Chris Evans as there was a court case pending but that I would talk to them about anything else.  I told them all about The Boys and they noticed that I had a Beatles magazine on the sideboard and one of them said "Oh The Beatles, were they punk rockers?"  I couldn't believe it.  Anyway they took some photos of my wife and myself.  John, Darrell and I considered re-recording "She's No Angel" but we didn't.  Glen Matlock asked me to appear with him on Evans' TV programme TFI Friday but I couldn't be bothered.
The original Rowdies single was played on Radio 1?
Oh yeah and they had a phone-in on the Sun where you could call a number and hear "She's No Angel".  A lot of people phoned up and of course John must have received some royalties over that because he wrote the song.  There was a record shop in Croydon who bought all the boxes of singles I had and they sold out very quickly.
Are you aware of the recent interest in The Boys?
I know that there was some interest in Germany and that Matt and John went over there a few years ago to write some stuff and play on an album.  I think it's great as I have always loved The Boys.
What are your three favourite Boys songs?
"Brickfield Nights", "Living In The City" and "Independent Girl".
Ken Mewis thought of The Boys as the second Rolling Stones. The Boys have been called "The Beatles of Punk".  What do you think?
They were more Beatles than Stones and Matt was very Lennon-esque.  Being a fan of John Lennon's I loved Matt's vocals.  They were one of the originators of real power-pop.
In your opinion why didn’t the Boys make it big?
Well the death of Elvis was a major factor and the death of Marc Bolan didn't help either as he was becoming a big fan of the band at the time of his death.  Ken Mewis was also a major factor as he just wasn't good enough to push the band.  They needed a good manager to effectively promote them.  They also didn't have anyone in the band who could promote themselves like Bob Geldoff could.  The Boomtown Rats were never any good but Geldoff really knew how to push them and get attention.  There was also this thing at the time that they weren’t radical enough which was silly.  John would probably say that Matt kept them back because he never wanted to be famous but that’s probably being unfair to Matt.  I really don’t know why they didn't make it as they certainly had the material that should have made them massive.
With hindsight what should The Boys have done differently?
Well in the early days they had the music press in their pockets, they were well liked and they should have capitalised on that.  They turned down a Heartbreakers tour and that was a big mistake.  At the time they felt they were as big as the Heartbreakers, which they probably were but they should have done it.  They should have also become more involved with the early punk package tours although I doubt whether Matt would have wanted to tour with the Clash as it would have been too close to home for him.  Maybe if the Ramones tour would have come earlier that would have helped them.
What type of music do you listen to now?
I still listen to The Beatles and other sixties stuff like the Kinks.  I listen to some punk stuff like The Boys, Ramones, Buzzcocks and Blondie.  I also listen to David Bowie, Kinks, Medieval Babes, Buddy Holly, Guns N Roses, LA Guns, Waylon Jennings and Jerry Lee Lewis.  I recently saw LA Guns at the Camden Underworld featuring Phil Lewis the former lead singer with Girl, a band who almost toured with The Boys in the seventies.
What are you doing at the moment?
Not a lot really.  I did some film reviews recently for Matt’s magazine and I enjoyed that.  I did think seriously about going in with Matt on his magazine but it was a bit of a gamble which I couldn't take at the time because of my family commitments.
What are your plans for the future?
Nothing much planned at the moment, but I have written an autobiography, which I would like to get published some time.  I suppose I should go hunting for a publisher.  It's called "Look back At Anger".