On 17 June 1998 UK Boys fan Phil Hanson interviewed Casino Steel for the "Ramones UK Fan Club Newsletter".

Ask the average person in the street what Norway has contributed to the world of music and they'll most probably answer either Aha or some dodgy entries in the Eurovision Song Contest. Well, what if I told you that there was a Norwegian out there who was, (deep breath) in one of Britain's most notorious glam bands, was a member of London's legendary mid 70's punk "supergroup", wrote and recorded some of the finest tunes during the punk heyday, became a member of the very select club of artists who've performed live with the Ramones and very nearly became a Ramone himself in the course of it, has had chart topping, platinum selling albums and has recorded with some of the most influential artists in rock. Well, on the 17th June, 1998, I managed to catch up with him for a chat. Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the wonderful world of Mr. Casino Steel....

I thought for the benefit of any readers who might not be as familiar with your work, we could run through some of the stuff you've done. Where does it all start? Is it the Hollywood Brats?

Yeah, Hollywood Brats. That's '72.

Was the intention to be like the New York Dolls?

No, because it was at the same time. We'd never heard of The Dolls, but we met them in London. We were the resident houseband at the Speakeasy Club, we played there once a week, but the only person that really liked us was Keith Moon. The manager of the club, Laurie O' Leary was, I think, the promoter of The Dolls' first visit to England. He was also some sort of manager for us, so we went drinking together with The Dolls, but we thought they were crap as they were our competitors. Anyway, at some party their drummer died [Billy Murcia]. We didn't like any of the stuff that was popular at the time. We were all born and bred on the Stones and we didn't like Genesis or Yes or whatever was popular at the time, so it was natural. We recorded one album which was released in Scandinavia in 1975 and in England in 1980. The Brats broke up because we went to Montreal to try to get in the States via Canada, but we couldn't. We nearly got killed.

Why was that?

They hated us. I mean, they're all clean cut lumberjacks over there and they hated our guts. We stayed for half a year or something and then split up. No one liked us. They hadn't really heard our first album and they all thought we were crap. My recollection of the whole period is very vague, but Andrew Matheson is writing a biography called "The Fall and Fall of The Hollywood Brats" where apparently all the details are revealed. After The Brats, I went back to London and we started up The Boys.

What about the London SS?

Yeah, it really meant London Social Security, so it's not what it seems to be. That was in the basement with Matt Dangerfield and there was Brian James from The Damned, Mick Jones of The Clash, Tony James [Gen X], Geir Waade from Wreckless Eric.

Did it ever go anywhere?

No, it was just a bunch of disillusioned hopefuls really, who didn't know what to do and didn't like anything that was happening. We only rehearsed and recorded because there was a 4 track recording studio in the basement.

A who's who of punk?

Yeah, but then there was the other contingent from the south which was the Pistols. So there was two gangs really.

And then The Boys came along. Was it John Plain's band?

No, no. Absolutely not. We were all equal. It was John, myself and Matt - we formed it, but it grew out from the basement sessions.

There was quite a writing partnership with Matt. How did that work?

I would say most of the lyrics are Matt's stuff.

What was doing the tour like?

Great, great. I loved it, you know? I got more and more involved as the tour went on because I started playing more songs, but I can't remember which ones now. We had a road manager in The Boys. A road manager called Mark, I can't remember his second name, but both me and Mark had the offer to join the Ramones, so my name was going to be Casino Ramone. We were offered a move to the States, but Mark pulled out, so then I was sort of by myself there and I was very, very down mentally because I was a bit alcoholic at the time and I felt I had to get out of the circus and Gary Holton felt the same. We just had to get out of here before we turned crazy. I didn't really have a social life with The Ramones, because they didn't have one themselves, because at that time even they were a bit weird. I've met them since, but at that time it was a bit extreme. They hardly spoke on the whole tour.

To you?

They didn't talk to themselves. They stayed in their own hotel rooms with their girlfriends. I never had any problems with Dee Dee. Marky was just there. Quiet. It was basically Joey and Johnny I mixed with. Mostly Johnny. They were fighting between themselves at the time, so it was a bit strange, but I did love the time on stage. So I did consider it very, very seriously.

So you would have been a fully fledged member of the Ramones?

Yeah.

Do you regret it now?

Oh, no. I went on doing other things. It doesn't matter. I've met them since and me and Johnny, we wrote together for quite a few years up until about 4 or 5 years ago.

I didn't know that. Has any of this ever....

Oh not songs, I mean letters. We were pen pals [hysterical laughter].

[sheepishly] Oh, I see. Do you keep in touch with any of the others?

No. I've met them when they've done concerts, so I went back stage and said hello and all that and we went out for dinner. Things like that.

Joey is a big Boys fan. He has a poster of the Ramones and The Boys in his flat.

I have the same in my flat [laughs]. They used one of our songs as an intro tape at the time as well - "T.C.P."

How did Baby I Love You come about. Did Joey ask you to play it?

Yeah, because they had to. They had to have an organ, a Hammond, and that's how it started really. They were happy with what I was doing and we got along quite well.

Well there were a few at the last gig.

Oh, yeah, yeah, but I spoke to him about 5 years ago, I think, and up until then he said I was the only one ever. So I was proud of that, because they're absolutely one of my all time favourite bands.

So after Gary Holton, where did you go from there?

Then I threw out all my rock 'n' roll albums and I swore never, ever to have rock 'n' roll in my home ever again in my life and I went country.

Country?

Yeah, I started listening only to George Jones and Waylon Jennings and I sat in bars and I drank for 4 years. Played country, slow country and listened to George Jones.

And who are these very special guests?

Well, the one's you've heard about is probably Ian Hunter and Andrew Matheson [Hollywood Brats]. The others are Scandinavian. It's due out Christmas, I hope, but it might be spring.

And Revolution Records. Is it your record label?

Yeah, it's my record label, but it's a hobby. It's basically to secure copyright. I've learnt from losing money because I've sold a lot of records, but I haven't earned a lot and I started to think why, so that's why I've ended up in the job I've got now. At the moment I am the Chairman of GRAMART which is the Gramophone Recording Artists Association and we are an organisation only for featured artists. So we're the opposite to the Musician's Union. The rest of Europe are following us because we are the only organisation in Europe that's got any power, so we are in all the international forums representing the recording artists. They're now trying to form an organisation in England and all over Europe based on us. It's fun, because I'm now making sure that people who sign recording contracts are getting paid and that they have fair contracts and they have got the rights. So I'm a bureaucrat. It takes nearly all my time up. I travel all over Europe to secure rights on the internet, basically.

I hope you start to see the benefits of it.

No, I get wages for this. So it doesn't matter to me, but it may matter to me regarding the back catalogue when I can put it out on the internet. Because at the moment, most things are free on the internet, but that will be sorted out in a year or two, I think.

Do you still keep in touch with the members of The Boys?

Oh yeah. I go to London quite a lot. John's always recording. Matt has an entertainment magazine called Footloose. Kid is, I think, managing director of Nottingham Forest. He used to be Andrew Lloyd Webber's accountant, but I've heard that he's quit and joined the board of Nottingham Forest.

That's quite a career change. I thought you needed lots of money to join the board?

Well he was always a bright guy, so he's probably been rich all the time.

But no urgency from you. You're not bothered?

Well if he says yes, go ahead - then I'll get bothered, but it's up to him.

Have you got a lot of unreleased stuff?

Oh yeah. We've got a lot of songs that we haven't recorded. No problem.