How quickly did the band’s relationship with NEMS deteriorate?

We couldn’t really blame NEMS for Elvis dying. Of course it was their fault they didn’t release the album earlier but we thought we’d give them another chance so I think we re-signed with them for the second album "Alternative Chartbusters" and they did one release gig and that was it. But in a funny sort of way we were a little bit cleverer than the others because we won an advertising campaign that year. It was brilliant all the "50 million fans can’t be wrong" and all that as well as the tour dates with Rome Coliseum and Tokyo and all that sort of stuff which was great; it was really funny. Some of the disc jockeys on the radio were picking up on it and we were getting some reasonable airplay and we couldn’t understand why it didn’t sell or the shops didn’t have the albums in stock. We didn’t know the business so we didn’t know it was NEMS fault. We then started to realise that there was something drastically wrong and we found out that the only reason they’d signed the Boys in the first place was because they could use us as a tax deduction. They weren’t interested in us at all because they had Black Sabbath and some other artists they were interested in as well as the back catalogue from Immediate.

How did "I Don’t Care" become chosen as the first single?

I don’t really know. I think that it was one of the first songs we wrote and it was an easy song to record. We recorded it in some terrible studio in Regent Street and it was done in a day including the mix and everything. We thought it was great to have a single out and it had to be something that we could do quickly.

Were you pleased with the finished recording?

Yeah I think so.

"Soda Pressing" is an awesome B-side. Did the band regard it as a strong song in 1977?

No I don’t think we realised at the time what a good song it was.

Around that time The Boys appeared on stage at the Marquee with Marianne Faithful?

She owes me five quid! She couldn’t afford to get the taxi down to the Marquee so I had to pay it. She was really down and out and nothing was happening with her career and she was also on NEMS. Ken suggested that we ask her up on stage to make her a little more trendy and hip and give her something to do. And we thought yeah sure I didn’t mind Mick Jagger’s old girlfriend up on stage with me. I thought it was knockout.

The released version was Matt’s remix with the vocals mixed lower.

Oh yeah that’s right, it was something Matt and I were really into at the time because the Stones obviously used to do that. We were into that style in the Brats as well. At the time it sounded right being mixed in that way.

With hindsight could the album have been better with a different mix?

Yeah but then again I’m not sure that it should have been better because it feels good now that the mix wasn’t better. It was right for the time that the mix should be raw.

What did you think of the finished product?

I didn’t like the cover. I liked the picture on the cover but I felt that it should have been a large one instead of all the smaller ones. It would have been more eye catching.

So the missing out of a verse wasn’t deliberate then?

No although we never wanted any song to be longer than 3 minutes 20 seconds. That was it. We changed a few formulas because Andrew Loog Oldham had told me in 1971 that if you hadn’t got a hook line in 20 seconds no one would bother to listen. So we changed things a little bit; we made sure we didn’t have long intros and we also made sure that the chorus came very early in the song. We also believed that songs should be short.

Of those two songs which versions do you prefer?

Oh no doubt about it the Brats versions are better. I think that the Brats "Sick On You" is a classic, I really do. It’s brilliant.

Were you surprised that "First Time" didn’t chart?

Oh yes.

Why did you edit "First Time"?

NI can’t remember. I always liked John’s songwriting. His simplicity is very good. The first time I heard it I thought it was great and I didn’t mind if they chopped it down, it was a great song.

Other than "First Time" and "Whatcha Gonna Do" Matt and yourself dominated the early days as songwriters.

Oh yeah absolutely. At that time we were thinking of John as a sort of George Harrison figure in that he’d get to do the odd song on an album.

What about Duncan?

Well as a songwriter he was learning and he was getting quite good. I don’t know why we didn’t record more of his songs although he didn’t write too many. I can’t remember how many of Duncan’s songs we rehearsed but I can’t really remember turning any down.

Around that time you went to the BBC to record your first John Peel session?

It was a very good session. John Peel was a great guy; he was such a pleasant person. We had a great time in the studio and we thought that those versions were better than the album versions. We recorded it one afternoon and we were very pleased with it.

The vocals were mixed higher than on the album?

Yeah, well we had nothing to do with it because they had their own technicians.

"Rock Relic" didn’t appear on the album?

Well we came up with the line "Not ready not ready, too young to go steady" which fit to "Rock Relic" so we used that instead.

Why not?

I don’t know, maybe I was recording with Gary in Trondheim and that’s why I didn’t go. I think it’s disgusting calling it "Live At The Roxy" and being such a crap album apparently recorded on an ordinary cassette recorder. I thought it was a cheek. I only played it the once and I was so disgusted with it I never played it again.

The Yobs came together again to record "Xmas 2". Why weren’t you involved?

Better ask Matt. I think it was a question of costs; the cost of my flight ticket and a few nights in a hotel! They probably thought they could do it easily themselves in a couple of days.

Shortly after the album was released you appeared live with the Yobs supporting Die Toten Hosen?

Oh yeah that was great and I loved the Yobs. I was pissed off with the Boys not asking me to do that second Christmas album and I think they sort of offered me a trip to Germany to make up for it.

Didn’t it come out on Revolution Records?

No not really. I had to do something because I was sitting there with the finished master tapes so I pressed up 400 copies just to do something. I know that it appeared on Revolution Records but it was never officially released. It was more or less the same album as the Ronson/Steel album except for a few tracks so I couldn’t make another release but I had to make a few copies at least.

I’ve got a copy and I think it’s a good album. I particularly like "Alison Likes Girls"; it’s a great song?

That’s a different version isn’t it?

Yes but it’s the only version I’ve got a copy of.

I re-recorded that and "Little Rebel"?

I believe that around that time there was the possibility of one or two Boys dates?

There still is. I’d love to record a new Boys album and I think John would. Duncan would probably say yes but Matt doesn’t want to. I hope we can persuade him because I’d really love to do another Boys album and I’ve got some great songs that would suit the Boys perfectly.

Well you’ve seen Backstage Pass and the website and you’ll know that the fans would love some new Boys material.

Yeah I know but the problem is it costs a lot of money and it would probably cost around £50,000 or so and someone has to put up that money. I’m not going to put up that kind of money and Mark Brennan can’t do it. Obviously he’d love to release it as would Action Records in France but you’d need a major label and they’ve never heard of the Boys.

Maybe with the popularity continuing to increase it might happen?

Well you’d need an A&R person who likes the Boys and that’s not easy to find.

Really?

Well that’s what I’ve been told.

You touched earlier on your own website. It’s been advertising for many months that it will be up and running shortly?

It costs a lot of money and the people that do it are very slow too. It’s nearly finished now but I’m not in any hurry. I’m waiting for Broadband where people can download songs with good sound quality. The internet is fine but I’m waiting until you can use your mobile as a walkman to listen to anything you want anytime anywhere.

What about selling your CD’s through the website?

Yeah absolutely although I don’t think people will bother, why should they?

A lot of your albums are impossible to get hold of and I’m sure there are lots of people out there who would like to buy them.

But they could listen to it whenever they want without owning the album. I don’t know if you know anything about Bluetooth.

No I don’t.

Well it will be very common in a year or two where you have a mobile or whatever with ear plugs, it could be a pen or something and you just use it as a remote control and you could have it on your stereo equipment or whatever. You don’t need to own anything.

Is the single still planned as the Steel/Matheson composition "Real Rain"?

Maybe.

Mick Ronson is supposed to be on the album so that must mean that there is some old material on it?

Yes there are some old recordings but I’ve re-mixed some of them. I’ve done "Brickfield Nights" and "Heroine" again.

You also mentioned some time ago on the Boys guestbook that you were looking to put together a live internet Yobs date at Christmas?

That was because someone really wanted us to do it and I’ve had many great offers to do a Yobs live date. I don’t know why Matt doesn’t want to do it, I really don’t know. There’s such a demand for it even from people who haven’t bought the album. The fans love the Yobs. I have offers at home, from Sweden, Italy and even the States to play some Yobs dates. I suggested last year that we should play New York, Rome, Paris, Berlin, Madrid, Tokyo, Stockholm and Oslo as a Christmas tour. Everyone thought it was great but Matt wasn’t enthusiastic about it and I don’t know why. We could easily do it.

You also mentioned that you were looking to put together a "Worst of The Yobs" album?

Yeah, I think Mark was going to do that but he’s now doing the first Yobs album on Captain Oi! Unfortunately he didn’t get the rights from Receiver for the Yobs second album but I think he’s still working on that so it may happen next year.

How do you feel about the first album coming out on CD?

It’s really good but I would have loved Captain Oi! To have released a "Worst of The Yobs" album because there’s some classic songs on the second Yobs album. We could also record at least three or four new Yobs songs for the album.

I used to be a big Beatles fan and the Boys really remind me of the Beatles not just with their music but also the fact that each member of the Boys was equally important to the music and image of the band.

That was also intentional. All the time we were thinking like that and we were sort of wearing uniforms. We were only allowed to wear black and red on stage. You could wear whatever you wanted as long as it was black and red. We always tried to keep a unified image which we were comfortable with and it made us a close knit unit. We became very very close and we were great friends and I think that shows in our music.

In your opinion why didn’t the Boys make it big?

I know it’s a terrible thing to say but it was because of NEMS and Elvis dying, those two things finished us. If we had signed to any other record company in the world we could have made it but NEMS only used us as a tax deduction.

John told me about the time you were hung out of the NEMS office window after he and Jack had wrecked the toilets?

Yeah and it also happened to Brady, he also went up and wrecked their offices. NEMS were having their Christmas party in the Penthouse Club in London. Andrew, Brady and myself went along. There was also Yes and Rick Wakeman and loads of people were there and Ken says to us "You have to make a scandal here". There was this long table packed with all kinds of stuff and Brady through me on this table so I smashed everything and he started to tear down the phone boxes from the wall. Rick Wakeman and Jon Anderson came over to start a fight and Andrew and I got thrown out. So we were there sitting on the pavement outside and the bouncers were telling us that it had been ten years since they’d thrown anyone out of the place and the last time they threw someone out it had been Keith Richards and Brian Jones. We were totally knocked out and we felt so proud! Ken said that it was great.

With hindsight what would you have done differently?

Started working on the railroads! We’ve always done the wrong thing so what I would have done differently would have been to have done the right thing for once. I’m still doing all the wrong things! John’s the same, he records some really great albums and they just don’t do anything. We just never get the breaks. So much depends on luck; being at the right place at the right time with the right people doing the right thing. Unfortunately we’ve never done all those things. I am a bit luckier than my friends in Norway who are also into the same type of music as I am but most of them cannot record or do things. On the other hand I can do things whenever I want and in some way I’m lucky. It’s great meeting people like you who are interested in our back catalogue and history. I take it as a great privilege and I appreciate it.

It’s a great privilege for me to meet you too! What are your three favourite Boys songs?

"Brickfield Nights" and "First Time" are the best two. I can’t pick a third as there’s so many.

What type of music do you listen to now?

I tend to listen to the music that suits a particular atmosphere. I’ve got all sorts but things haven’t been too good for me recently. The music I listen to has to relate to my own feelings. I don’t know if it helps in fact it probably makes it worse. I listen to a lot of Kris Kristofferson and that type of stuff. I also listen to George Jones and Oasis. It’s difficult because I’ve never liked a lot. I only like music by artists I can relate to. I made a statement which was picked up in the Norwegian press when I was putting a band together. Everyone thought it was absolutely ridiculous so it made a mockery out of my statement but to me it wasn’t meant to be funny. I said that I could never have a guitar player in my band with a moustache and to me it makes sense. I know it doesn’t make sense to a listener but to me it does because the character has to be right. Brady was sacked from the Hollywood Brats because he was carrying a plastic bag on Oxford Street! You can’t do that, not when you were in the Brats for God’s sake. When I was first introduced to George Jones I saw pictures of him and I thought who is this soppy shit. I then found out about the person, I mean he could eat Sid Vicious for breakfast. Here he is looking like a bank clerk and being totally out of it. That’s when I got the interest going and started to relate to what he was saying and doing. I suppose that’s why I got into the Stones.

You are chairman of Gram Art?

No I used to be. That was an organisation made for recording artists only. I had been ripped off all my life signing crap deals with crap people who were just cheats. I still don’t get any royalty statements from NEMS and I don’t seem to receive any royalties for anything I’ve done. So I was headhunted by the artists themselves as an advisor on what not to do because I’d done so many things wrong. I could at least advise them what they shouldn’t do. That was about ten years ago and the more I became involved the more I realised they’d been ripped off everywhere by everyone. As a songwriter some wanker owns your songs for seventy years after your death and it’s disgusting. I became chairman and it’s the only organisation for recording artists in the world with the power to tell the collecting societies how to distribute the money. That was fun but I’m no longer on the board but I learned a lot.